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Author Topic: Picking things back up  (Read 10475 times)

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2020, 05:59:01 am »
If, and this is a big if, the system is working how I think it is then I might need to reconsider something I have just assumed for a long time and that is why an arm with a motor and flywheel accelerates the way it does.

If then I ponder that with how my system is reacting, and change my assumption of forces to being more like a differentiated force reaction as seen by the points of observation, then the behavior is appropriate, or it could be a form of precession and my assumption still holds.

I am not set up to overly test the position of the mass, I built the system to use a generator for the output load, I just placed a mass on the end of the output shaft.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2020, 03:54:28 am »
I think I have most of the main system in the correct configuration, and I have those parts all printed and stuff.
Now for the more challenging part, the part that gets both frustrating and exciting :)
I now know what I need to do and where it needs to happen, and I think I know why,, it is a simple thing that may not be as simple to actually design and build.

When I get that figured out and added to the system then hopefully it will do what I would like it to do.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2020, 04:07:06 am »
I designed and built my system with a part in the wrong place,, I am redoing it and moving the part to the correct place :)

Funny thought, what if I were to pull on something and it moved further away from me?  Well that is what I am dong with my system and that part of the relationship is working.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2020, 06:57:57 pm »
A stick and slip where things are supposed to be smooth is not good,, I need to fix that.

I also ordered some new drive motors,, more torque :)

So far the system is doing what I would like it to do but the motors I have are not up to the challenge as well as the stick and slip issue already burning up one motor, hence the new stronger ones.

It is somewhat of a pulse system, that is half the time it is supplying a torque and the other half it is resetting with a greatly reduced counter torque,, so asymmetrical if you will.

When I have the motors and the stick and slip issue fixed I will then be able to run a better test and if I redo the reset system I can improve things that way as well, it should be an almost no cost thing to reset the system.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2020, 05:42:27 am »
While I am waiting on the motors I thought of a way to reduce the load on my existing motor, it is only providing its input force for a partial motion so I came up with a way to use the rest of its motion to store some force and apply it when it is needed.

Running it this way the system appears to function, granted, as more of a pulse torque than a constant torque but the new motors will help with that as well.

There is lots of room for improvement but it appears that the basic concept functions in providing an asymmetrical torque from the system against the shaft it is mounted on between drive and reset.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2020, 07:03:33 pm »
Got and installed the new drive motor, those runs were very frustrating and come to find out the motor I installed was defective,, I did not think about it since these are new to me motors so they might be a little different than the other ones even tho they look the same.

Replaced that motor with another one, tests are still frustrating.  When I load the system up one of my parts starts to fail, when I leave it lite on the load the one part works most of the time but not consistently and when I run it lite the mass of all of that part of the system accelerates fast enough to cause some system rotation,, so not desirable to run fast.

A part that was not designed for the load and friction value that it is running with this way is having some issues as well so I am going to have to make a part to deal with that,, the place I made something to take on that frictional piece is not doing its job,, the part has decided to move into its own area even tho it should be bearing down on the friction surface I provided.

With all the little run times I have had with the new motor I have had a few moments when all things line up and work like they should and I appear to get a larger torque one way than I do for the return in the other direction.


webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2020, 05:35:43 am »
working the kinks out.

I have a few issues that I am working on,, one of them was rather stupid, I was over-driving the system and running into some of the limiters,, silly error.

When operated by hand the system provides one amount of torque one way and another amount upon the reset, the driven motion is the larger and the reset the less.

One of the things that is interesting is the interaction between the direction of force, whether from the input or the reset.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2021, 07:24:31 pm »
working on new ideas and am playing with one that is sort of like a circular Storks bill,, it is fun to play with the testbeds and might actually make a good design study for those who are in the mechanical world,,, fun things with force vectors and stuff.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2021, 06:48:51 pm »
I have been playing with a device that allows me to interact with a rotating force vector between two interactive components,, nothing big really but it is kind of fun to play with.

A few years ago I tried to come up with a Non-Rotating Lever, NRL, and as one might guess it failed.  I also made a few other test-beds around some of the same concepts and well Palm showed a few interesting things but upon a sim being made showing the same kind of thing and then that sim being found to be flawed I just assumed it was some kind of unseen preload in my test-bed and left it at that.

I am slowly making the parts to attempt to make an NRL and if it does work then my other test-bed might of been flawed but not enough in the right way :)

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2021, 07:53:48 pm »
My test-bed is really unstable so nothing I see from it is anything concrete,, it is trying to show me how I need to change it so that things only move like they are supposed to instead of with all the slop.

One of my assumptions is that if I apply my input force in one are I will get a different output force as compared to another area, that part seems to be present, funny thing was I thought it was backwards until I looked at and realized I was looking at my test-bed backwards,, that is as for as the force vectors go,, silly on my part.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2021, 06:49:51 am »
this is an idealized pictograph of the relationships as I see them.

At first I thought that it would not be able to be realized in the real world, but with the appropriate acceptance of compromise I think now that it can.

Now to choose the compromise and design and build.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2021, 06:36:27 pm »
it is not as easy as I had hoped it would be,, but I am slowly moving forward.

I have made it as small as I could but still one part is bigger than my printer so I had to cut it into pieces and print them that way.

I will not be able to build a "wheel" with the way I am going about it for this test-bed, but I should be able to have an NRL and or a self lifting weight :)

When I have all the parts printed I will know if I am correct or still missing it.

The mysterious force of opposition :)

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2021, 07:45:39 pm »
I made some parts that are close but I needed those parts to decide on what the correct parts should be,, confusing but it is how I work :)

I did assemble those parts even tho they are not super close to what I need them to be, and that was very interesting to play with since I was expecting to be wrong with my predictions on the behavior of the systems involved.

So far it works almost exactly like I predicted it should work,, now to design and print the real parts and then I can run some force tests with something other than Mr. Hand.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2021, 04:33:10 am »
I have tried to incorporate a few "enhancements" into the test-bed I have right now.  I have tried to include a system that helps control the mysterious force of opposition so that the output of the main system is even greater.

That system, the "enhancement" is not doing what I hoped it would, so far anyway.

The main system is showing and doing what I thought it would, that is it has a range of interaction where if using gravity the system would self lift that mass and pass through a transition point and then drop it back down.

I need to incorporate a control system for the transition point so that the system does not loose its relationships, the parts will just "pop" the wrong way if allowed and fall out of alignment.

I have sheared a few pins while testing things so far and so I need to keep the forces fairly small right now, but I hope if things keep going as well as they are and then I will change those pins and things so that a significant amount of force can be passed through the system.

webby2

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Re: Picking things back up
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2021, 05:17:54 am »
I am a little frustrated.

I am trying to make changes so that in the end the system will be a constant exchange of an external force instead of this short range exchange.  It is not going real well and I am running into the same issue with just ending up with a short range.

I have been blowing an awful lot of brain farts these past 3-4 weeks and to me that means that I am not appreciating what is actually happening within that short range, I am missing what the real interaction is.

 

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