+-

Greeting

Welcome to my simple forum
 
Please be considerate of all members
Cookies and Java-Script are not needed
but can be used for YOUR convenience
I do not have ads on this site so do not place any on it
I have allowed registration upon my approval
the solution is
one is 1
 

User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 7
Latest: testman
New This Month: 0
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 250
Total Topics: 34
Most Online Today: 3
Most Online Ever: 309
(March 14, 2020, 03:55:59 pm)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 2
Total: 2

Author Topic: mechanical gain device  (Read 10980 times)

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
mechanical gain device
« on: April 26, 2018, 09:40:47 pm »
I have in simulation a mechanical gain device.

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Clackers-Klakkers-Makers-Favors/dp/B003415LOM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackers

This toy can be very inspirational,, as well as a Newtons cradle since they are basically the same thing.
I started with a basic change to the toy.
This does not include any of the other stuff and is only a change to start with.
This simple mod can itself be "tweaked" and change the behavior of the system.
I would also point out that going from this simple starting point I supplied numbers from the sim interacting with the whole system in at least 2 different ways.
What I am trying to point out is that I might of found a method but it is in no way the only method and is most likely not even the best method.

<TIC> Those that are skilled in the production of mechanical gain devices might be able to infer what all the missing parts are and how they interact :)


webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 09:41:56 pm »
Now you could connect the two clacker parts together :)

This is how I have done it.
There is more stuff but this is where I started getting some of the stuff I am getting, and this is not the first time I have played with this setup or shared it, I did not "use" it the way I am now.  Those previous times were ITRW, as in testbed.
This also is not setup to use gravity.
Motion makes motion and force makes force.
Give it motion.

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 09:44:09 pm »
I myself prefer to run with 2 sets on the same pivot and have those sets interconnected.

I colored the systems to make it easy to see.

Then for starters you can add a motor and a spring and start the motion correctly.

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 09:44:45 pm »
I decided to share this even tho I figure there will be,, well stuff.
I guess that there will be:
Those that take it and present it elsewhere as there own idea
Those that will "protect" it using the law
Those that will claim it is either there idea or a knock off of there idea
Those that will simply say it does not work
Those that will use this to justify what they are doing
but most of all, the thing that bothers me the most is that there will be those that will stop with only this version of it, maybe going so far as to say you can't do it any other way or use any other force\motion or whatever.

so the numbers showed that the system, just as simply setup as I have shown, produces approx. 36J in those 3 full negative cycles.

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 09:49:52 pm »
After the first run I increased the circle mass from 0.768kg to 2kg and the system ran at a loss and since the motor and wheel are at a fixed RPM something must be getting accelerated.

Since the only thing that can be accelerating is the arm\mass parts then if I let it run for a while they should come to an equilibrium of sorts and things should drop to a net zero.

-4.7J is close enough for now.

Now there is all this motion, all this force and it all is not really hard linked together, if it was then the acceleration would of been instant, that is the arms\masses would of been at speed with the wheel motor period, but there is a dynamic link between them.
What force is compressing the spring?  What force is the spring creating when it expands?  Simple questions.
Where and how is this force exchanged?

What if "I" could control that exchange?
What if "I" put something in the middle of that conservative exchange?

In my other data dumps I have shared, that is what I am doing.  I have put a "control" system in the middle and am using the conservative exchange of potentials in such a way as to not stop the exchange.
I am conserving Momentum, or I at least I should say I am allowing Momentum to be conserved but through my control device, like a dam on a river.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 09:52:36 pm by webby2 »

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 09:53:19 pm »
I think then with what I have shown so far it is reasonable to say that "I" as the operator have put in the energy to compress the spring and spin the system up to speed.  This energy is now stored within the system.  This energy is in a constant state of exchange, it is oscillating between momentum of the arms\masses and compression of the spring and is seen by the torque required from the wheel motor.

There is a potential that some may not consider.  The red arm on the dual interconnected pic that connects the two arms together creates a closed system between those two arms, this then also means that the momentum of those arms can be conserved.
What if I were to take the relative momentum of one of those arms\masses and transfer it to the other one?
Would the other one then need to accelerate to store that momentum?
What other forces would change with that transfer change of momentum?
What is observing all of this?
How would that point of observation change?

I have provided the data for at least 3 different ways of interacting, one where I control the rate of change of the arms\masses relative to the wheel and each other, one where I control the wheel rate of rotation and one where I control both.

I have asked myself these questions and I have come up with my own answers and then used those answers to try and make the system act the way I want it to.

This concept can be used in other ways, I am sure of that, as well as I am sure there are better ways of doing it mechanically than what I came up with.

We understand all that is around us mainly by what we see, the mechanical universe if you will,, so if we can see that universe in a slightly different way we might be able to create new things and gain a higher level of understanding of what we see.

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 09:53:48 pm »
The center to center measurements
Long arms 10
Short arms 4
Cross arms 8
pivot from axle 4

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2018, 09:10:09 am »
I dropped down to one system and added a control device, which is not shown.

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2018, 10:11:50 am »
Now I have added a load

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2018, 10:12:32 am »
Then I increase the frames per second to get a closer look

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2018, 12:53:21 pm »
FYI,
The wheel radius is 4.5m

2.0400000000e+000 long arm  kg
8.4000000000e-001 short arm  kg
6.3617251235e+001 wheel  kg
1.6400000000e+000 cross arm  kg
6.0000000000e+000 spring rest length  m
5.0000000000e+004 spring constant N/m

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2018, 09:25:06 pm »
the data from the sim runs

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 09:27:30 pm »
more runs

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2018, 09:28:14 pm »
and the last run

webby2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: mechanical gain device
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2018, 09:33:10 pm »
I might be wrong but I think that it is important to observe and understand that the system prior to the inclusion of the "control" device is a conservative mechanical oscillator.
I think this understanding of the conditions prior to the use of the "control" device makes it easier to understand that it is still only a conservative mechanical oscillator with the "control" device active and a load being taken out of the system.

In this setup there is no new energy being created or destroyed and that all the energy is accounted for.

 

Powered by EzPortal